Looking at you 2012

skmod13 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:11 pm **Posts:** 6

Steve520 wrote:

"The leader can start anywhere he wants after that line" The Leader starts. That IS the fire first rule.

"if you get through the wreck" The last thing we need are some hammerheads blasting through a wreck trying to pick up positions before the next timing trap area. The reverting back to the last completed lap is safer from that aspect. I would rather people woah up and be safe going through a wreck....knowing they can get their position back... instead of trying to drive through it for position.

I'll agree with the Edelbrock intake, but why force these teams to buy another carb? You don't HAVE to buy a VDL. A regular 4412 is just as cheap. The Demon carb you quote is around $400-$450 without spending the money on a Barry Grant tuned one. Add to that your intake proposal and the $550 claim doesn't cover the cost at all. Your rule change would also force a driver who moves up, to buy another carb, as well as any team that wants to run, that is from another track.(Thompson and Stafford both run the 4412 as well)

Sorry Steve, don't know if you've ever driven or owned a car before.

Yes. The leader starts the race. All that matters is who crosses the start finish line first. If the 2nd place guys goes over the start finish line first, throw the yellow. Its a pretty easy concept that has work for many years before the rule. I can show you many times on video where the 2nd place guy jumped, but when they came to the line, the 1st place guy crossed the line first. and the yellow was thrown. The rule is a waste of time.

Have you ever driven through a wreck? I'm pretty sure the last thing on a drivers mind it to just mash the gas and go slamming through. They may be a little to busy just trying to get through. And as for modified racing, its all about lining up bumpers and driving through. Do you know what happens when you try to stop for a wreck? The guy behind you drives over the top.

As for the carb and intake. don't know where you come up with your numbers.
Race Demon carb, Barry Grant is who makes it, so wheres the Barry Grant tuning come in?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sa ... ,8291.html

And as for the intake, don't know where you come in with that number also.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7101/

I don't know about you, but my math comes up to $490 for both. So a 500 claim is not out of touch.

Stock out of the box 4412. You go ahead and buy one and see where you get.
You can buy 2 Demons for what a VDL is going for.

Do you actually think its the rules that keep people from running other tracks?
How you are treated is the main reason people switch to different tracks.

BenA · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:28 pm

I agree with you for sure on the Edelbrock intake. They are relatively inexpensive, they are all pretty much identical, and they are very hard to cheat up. The biggest thing with stock cast intakes is that there is such a disparity between good ones and mediocre ones it drives the cost up. Clutches are in the same boat, while its not a 'stock' part, it isn't overkill and will last a lot longer.

As far as handicapping goes, the old way worked best. No winner should start in the top 5, the only reason they went away from it is in 2004 they had 14 different winners and they kept starting people up front that had barely any handicap.

Paul Rose · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:56 pm

Someone at my loco gym told me that the WMT will return to the Bowl in 2012. I don't believe him because it's only a rumor as of now. The only reason I'm telling you all this. Is because he goes to every WMT race he can go see.

::shrugs:: :lol:

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

GSC wrote:

Amen Shadow! The tier handicap system sucks plain and simple. I get the whole deal it keeps the "off the pace" cars out of the front of the field, but as you said go back to the old system and if someone isn't "ready" to be starting up front place them to the rear of the starting order. Nothing against the #57 SK team, but they won 12 races this year and very rarely ever started the feature worse then 8th (If they qualified in a tier qualifying spot in their heat race) Or 9th if they missed the tier in the heat race.

I also agree with the other poster who said go back to the rule of not starting the feature better then 5th if you win a race. Case in point (Sorry to use them as an example again, I'm not trying to pick on the #57 SK team) but they won like 5 races, some of them in a row I believe hit a rough patch of three weeks and then had a poleshot the fourth week and went on to handily win the feature.

Just an opinion, but I think changing back to the old rules in both those situations would make for better racing for both the fans and competitors.

It would make a much better show for those people that love to watch what the bowl has posted on it's website right now. :lol:

That may have worked in the past but it doesn't work anymore for fans and competitors. Despite what the bowl is using for a promotion handicapping this way has gone a long way to cleaning the racing up. It's not calls being made and so on IMO. The quality of cars in the top 8 every night makes for a better show and insures most teams will continue week to week. How many guys do you see not come back for a week/month after they wreck? Car counts can't survive this because the money isn't there.

Wanna handicap 15 mods at the bowl? The purse better double all the way through the field or you wont have to worry about running heats at some point.

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

skmod13 wrote:

1) Engine rules: Change intake rule to Edelbrock 7101. And change carb to a 500 cfm Race Demon. Since the carb and intake would run you $ 550, put a claim rule on it. If someone finishes last and wants to claim your carb and intake, so be it. If you’re not cheating than there’s nothing to worry about. Can’t see why you have to pay $800 for a VDL carb., When you can walk out with an intake and carb for less than that.

Better yet let's look at the track running 7101's and the car counts at the other two tracks that don't. That experiment failed heavily and I guess there is talk of them going back to the cast iron intakes.

I'm not sure why making everyone buy something new to be legal and competitive is such a good idea.

There is more to it then $550 intake and carb changes also. Those with the money and smart aren't just going to bolt a 7101 on and go.

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2) Drive Train: Clutch and flywheel, Go to the 7 ¼ clutch steel 2 disc assembly. Let everyone run the LW flywheel if they want. It will last you multiple years, not like these stock clutches that maybe last you the year and cost you over $400, not to mention the $500 flywheel. After every Saturday night feature, the top 10 cars get jacked up (if there’s that many left). An official goes underneath with a flashlight and magnet and checks the clutch and flywheel, no tools and time to take out. Its only 10 cars! You can’t cheat up a super clutch and make the flywheel any lighter.

That many left is right! So far you are up over $1000 in parts that would need to be on cars you already have by opening day. If you want I'll sell you some super special flywheels at the discounted rate of $475. :roll:

Didn't this idea fail heavily elsewhere also?

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3) Starts: Get rid of the fire first rule!! Paint a line 5 feet before the first line in 3 and 4. The leader can start anywhere he wants after that line, PERIOD. If the second place guy jumps and crosses the start finish line first, then throw the yellow. Stop bringing the yellow out for no reason.

My idea would be to just get rid of the first and second boxes and just make it one big box.

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4) Add more timing loops: Put timing loops at the entrences and exit of corners. After a wreck a wreck, freeze the field at the closest timing loop after the wreck. Stop going back to the last completed lap crap. Just because it’s easier to do, it does not mean it’s the right thing to do. Part of racing is your driving ability, if you get through the wreck, and your driving ability got you there, than that’s where you stay.

If you get through the wreck and someone doesn't what does your whole new rule do anyway?

Going back to the last completed lap is a great rule. How many times have you seen a dominate race car get the lead as the yellow comes out? Under your rule the night is over, the winner has been decided. Under these rules fans get to see it all over again and see if that guy can get it done on the outside.

The only thing that needs to be cleaned up about this rule is a set amount of cars or a percentage of the field need to be set as a rule to call a lap complete. Not sure what that number needs to be but I know it isn't 7. 7 cars passed the line one night and they didn't count the laps, we lost the lead. :lol:

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5) More Laps: Increase laps to 50 laps. The Sk’s are the premiere division, so treat them that way. You’ll see fewer guys pushing the issue because they have more time.

The problem there is you need to also pay for 50 laps. 50 lap races means the sks would run an extra feature every 2+ weeks. It's all time on the motor. To make this work the purse would need to jump to a proportional $1570 to win and be higher through the field. I'm not sure the track is in that position right now to do that.

Would it draw more fans? Most likely not IMO. Someone would get screwed on that deal, the teams would race for even less money or the fans would pay a higher gate price for it.

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6) Spotter’s booth: Make every team spotter have a scanner. Put Gino in charge of lineups and restarts.

No more miscommunications between officials and teams.

This already happens.

skmod13 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:11 pm **Posts:** 6

Quote:

[]Better yet let's look at the track running 7101's and the car counts at the other two tracks that don't. That experiment failed heavily and I guess there is talk of them going back to the cast iron intakes/quote]

I sure hope your kidding on this one. You think it's the intake that's dropping car counts. I think it's more like they want other cars from other track to come there because of low car counts.

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I'm not sure why making everyone buy something new to be legal and competitive is such a good idea.

Did you just say this.. Sit back and ask yourself how much sense did this just make. Bolt on parts can be claimed, you want to cheat it up go right ahead, cause your gonna lose it.

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That many left is right! So far you are up over $1000 in parts that would need to be on cars you already have by opening day. If you want I'll sell you some super special flywheels at the discounted rate of $475. Didn't this idea fail heavily elsewhere also?

If you own a car, price out how many times you had to replace your clutch and flywheel parts. I guarentee you gonna be way over what you would pay for a super clutch, that would last you for years.. As for the $475 flywheel, maybe you just havent seen them yet. Doesnt matter if it $500 t0 $200. The LW flywheel is the cheapest.

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My idea would be to just get rid of the first and second boxes and just make it one big box.

Um!! Isnt that what it is now? All that should matter is who crosses the line first.

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[/If you get through the wreck and someone doesn't what does your whole new rule do anyway?quote]

They lose their spot, simple as that. They didnt get through the wreck.

[quoteHow many times have you seen a dominate race car get the lead as the yellow comes out? Under your rule the night is over, the winner has been decided. ]

You lost me again on this one. The dominate car gets the lead. There's a reason for that, he's the faster car. So what your saying is i couldnt hold him off the first time, let me mirror drive him this time and wreck in front of the whole field?

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The problem there is you need to also pay for 50 laps. 50 lap races means the sks would run an extra feature every 2+ weeks. It's all time on the motor. To make this work the purse would need to jump to a proportional $1570 to win and be higher through the field. I'm not sure the track is in that position right now to do that.

Pay for 50 laps. :lol:

Stafford, a bigger track runs 40 laps. Thompson an even bigger track runs 25. And the smallest of them all Waterford runs 35. Your worried about engines. Do you see guys at other tracks complaining about miles on their motors? I know I dont care.

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

Thompson runs 30.

So you're gonna run almost 8 more features per year on a motor for no pay? Guys running the whole year on the motor before freshening wont be happy.

35 with the few shows mixed in with extra laps is fine. Some of the teams that run up front go all year on a motor freshening, that wouldn't happen if we ran 50 laps every week. It would factor another 2-6k into the racing budget.

skmod13 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:11 pm **Posts:** 6

Man it sucks typing all this stuff on an iPhone. Excuse the way the quotes come out. same thing with the Thompson 30, spell check put it to 25. :mrgreen:

Warren · **Joined:** Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm **Posts:** 361

Quote:

Did you just say this.. Sit back and ask yourself how much sense did this just make. Bolt on parts can be claimed, you want to cheat it up go right ahead, cause your gonna lose it.

Yes, sure did. I've never seen new rule changes that require a division to buy new parts to be legal, and or making old parts unuseable be a good thing anywhere.

The bowl isn't in the shape to make rules changes on it's most steady (or at least second, not sure how many minis they got weekly) and premier division. All this goes for the clutch also.

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You lost me again on this one. The dominate car gets the lead. There's a reason for that, he's the faster car. So what your saying is i couldnt hold him off the first time, let me mirror drive him this time and wreck in front of the whole field?

Um, not at all. If you don't understand, go watch some of sid's videos and see his and the crowds reaction when this happens. It makes it far more exciting.

You don't care about running 270 laps for nothing, have you ever run a full year?

skmod13 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:11 pm **Posts:** 6

As for the question, have i ever ran a full year. Yes. Just so you know. I've owned racecars for over 20+ years and still do. I own the 13 Doug Coby drives , and had drivers such as Chuck Docherty, Tommy Fox, Woody Pitkat, James Civali, Todd Szegady, Bobby Santos, Kerry Malone, Ted Christopher, Ron Silk, Steven Reed drive for me.

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